Interviewed by Joanna Parson
[Originally Posted July, 2007]

I play Cora Flood, who’s the wife of Rubin, the mother of 16 yr old Reenie and 10 yr old Sonny, the sister of Lottie and the sister in law of Morris. I describe her that way, because for a good deal of the play she determines who she is and her own self worth more by those around her as opposed to who she is when she’s alone (which she tries very hard never to be). I believe her journey through the play has a lot to do with her learning who she is on her own and how to be comfortable with that, regardless of whom she may disappoint ultimately in that discovery.

This project reunites you with Michele Pawk, with whom you co-starred on Broadway in Hollywood Arms, the play based on Carol Burnett’s best-selling memoir One More Time. Pawk won the Tony Award for that play—what has it been like to work with Michelle again?
It’s an absolute dream to work with Michele again. Besides the fact that we have remained quite close since HOLLYWOOD ARMS and that she is a brilliant actress, Michele is just one of the most wonderful, funny, warm and witty people I know on the face of this earth. What’s really fun about this play for us is that in HOLLYWOOD ARMS, she played my mother and now we’re playing sisters. So not only do we get to work with each other again, but we get to be ‘family’ again too. And of course, there’s so much personal history between me and Michele personally at this point that when it calls for us to have that ‘history’ onstage as sisters- there’s no need to manufacture anything. It’s just there for us for real, which is a great gift to both of us. But she’s just the best, most selfless acting partner you could ever ask for onstage and we’re all very blessed to have her in our company onstage and off.

You’ve both had wonderful Broadway opportunities—what factors influence your decision to take a show with an emerging company like Transport Group, without the budget of Broadway?
Well, this will be my third production with the Transport Group and I have to say that both FIRST LADY SUITE and THE AUDIENCE were two the most fantastic theatrical experiences I’ve ever had. Both those shows gave me many things that a Broadway salary could never have personally and professionally, in regards to the shows themselves and of course, the talented people who chose to come together to bring those shows to life. Not to say that Broadway doesn’t offer the opportunities to do really satisfying work sometimes (I actually have been really lucky in this regard), but the Transport Group consistently strives for and achieves theatrical excellence and I attribute that mostly to Jack Cummings III.

Jack is the resident director in addition to being the head of the Transport Group, and he brings in top-tier talent like Michele Pawk, Mary Testa, and Julia Murney because he has proven time and time again that he respects the material, everyone involved and that Transport Group is about REALLY SAYING something. And that’s all we actors ultimately want to do is tell a story that’s WORTH telling and in a way WORTHY of that story. At the Transport Group there’s none of that corporate craziness that can sometimes pollute a Broadway show where vital decisions about the story come down to things that have absolutely nothing to DO with the story such as T-shirts and baseball caps and set pieces that have no purpose being onstage other than because they were ridiculously expensive. Transport Group for all intents and purposes ‘keeps it real’.

It’s like independent film compared to blockbuster movies. Sure, everyone loves MEN IN BLACK and has a real good time at it, but that film isn’t going to really move you or make you think, or inspire much soul searching or personal reflection. But when you go to see an independent film like GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK or TRANSAMERICA it very well could change your life forever. You know? Transport Group is like the Sundance of theatre and actors who still have the desire to tell stories worth telling will always do everything they can to be a part of the purity that Transport Group and Jack Cummings provides.

You’ve just wrapped up the acclaimed revival of Sweeney Todd, directed by John Doyle, where all of the actors played instruments and served as the orchestra for the show. Tell us about that experience—what would people be surprised to know about that process?
Working on SWEENEY TODD was unbelievable. It was clearly, a once in a lifetime experience that I will cherish forever, absolutely. We really had no idea going in what we were in for as a company and it was very much a ‘boot camp’ mentality from the first day. Like, we were all in it together (whatever ‘it’ was) and that we were all going to be there for each other in every way possible because this was completely uncharted territory for every single one of us. As a result of the nature of the show, where we were literally all accompanying and supporting each other for most of the time, there was a selflessness and a level of respect and listening that I have never experienced before in a company– and wonder if I ever will again.

There’s also something about the personalities of trained musicians, too. You have to be a certain kind of person to have the discipline and diligence to learn any instrument well, so when you get ten of those people in a room, you get an ASTOUNDING amount of work done in a very short amount of time. On the other hand though, with such perfectionists in the room, the energy could get rather tense at times and we were much more unforgiving of ourselves than others might be. There were many of us who learned a great lesson about how perfection, while an honorable goal…is indeed something that is impossible to achieve. Sometimes, we used to look around the room and call it the ‘Type A’s Anonymous’.

What would surprise people about that process?
Well, what surprised ME was how quickly we learned all that material. Normally when you’re rehearsing a more ‘traditional’ show you rehearse about 3-4 weeks in the rehearsal room, get to tech in the theatre (which is an absolute nightmare) and hopefully by dress rehearsal everyone’s got everything memorized and no one gets seriously injured with the craziness that ensues by combining all these different teams (costumes, actors, sets, lights, sound, etc) in a really short amount of time. So naturally, we were imagining that for all of us to learn the entire score of SWEENEY TODD by memory (instrumentally, vocally and dramatically) we were REALLY going to be pushing it and that tech week and dress were going to be INSANE.

On the contrary, SOMEHOW we all had the entire show memorized and blocked by WEEK THREE (which was astounding to us all). That gave us an entire week in the rehearsal room to still play around (a rare luxury) and then when we got to tech, but because there were no set changes other than the ones we had already rehearsed for weeks, no costume changes, entrances, exits, etc there was nothing to tech except for lights and sound. So the tech period was unbelievably, the most stress free tech any of us had ever experienced.

And also, the biggest surprise to all of us of course that we were such a ‘hit’. I remember vividly, at the end of the first preview where there was this terrifying silence at the end of the show. We all were really worried we would be dragged through the streets of Times Square for doing the show ‘this way’ and so that silence made us all think for a second, ‘oh my God we’re dead’. And then…there was just this ERUPTION of screaming and cheering and I think we all were just so relieved that we weren’t going to be tarred and feathered on our way out the stage door that night. A big and very PLEASANT surprise, that one.

Sweeney Todd gave you the opportunity to work with another female legend of the stage, Patti LuPone. What can you tell us about working with Patti?
I think Patti is one of the most incredibly talented, brave and ‘present’ actresses I have ever had the honor of working with. The thing about Patti is that EVERY SHOW she did was different. She is SO present and so in the moment at every second that…everything she does is for all intents and purposes ‘right’. It’s kind of mind boggling after while, I have to admit. And John Doyle just took that about her and ran with it. For example, he never blocked any of the scenes between her and Michael Cerveris. He just gave them both places to begin and places to end but EVERYTHING they did from the first scene to even “Little Priest” was completely open every show, and they were both free to do whatever felt ‘right’ to them in the moment. For 8 times a week, it was like I was front and center at one of the most amazing acting classes in town.

And another thing about Patti that I think is extraordinary is that she’s ‘Patti Lupone’, you know? And everyone has this IDEA of who ‘Patti Lupone’ is and I’m sure there is immense pressure to BE that ‘Patti Lupone’ that everyone expects, for fear of disappointing people in some way. And for sure, people not only expected her to be ‘Patti Lupone’ in this show, but also ‘Angela Lansbury’ too. And she did neither. She created her very own Mrs Lovett from scratch, which was incredibly difficult (especially since she had played Mrs Lovett many times already in the traditional way). But she stripped away everything when she came in the door and created her very own sexy, raw, primal Mrs Lovett– which, in a piece as iconic as SWEENEY TODD is near to impossible- and the fact that her own personality is SO specific, that she didn’t use any of those ‘Lupone-isms’ as a crutch…is one of the greatest processes I’ve ever been privy to witness in a rehearsal period. Also, she has an almost religious reverance for the theatre and many times actually compared it to ‘church’.As a result, she held a very high standard not only for those us onstage but for the audience as well.

In Hollywood Arms, you played a character based on Carol Burnett. How did you tackle the challenge of portraying a living legend? Did she give you any tips?
Well, I ran into this issue years before HOLLYWOOD ARMS actually when I was asked to play “Dorothy Gale” in THE WIZARD OF OZ. How do you play a character that is not only famous but BELOVED by so many? And when I was reading up on THE WIZARD OF OZ all those years ago, a quote from Ms Garland herself gave me the best answer. She said, ‘Always be a first-rate version of yourself and never a second-rate version of somebody else.’ As a result, I decided to do my very best ‘Dorothy Gale’ as opposed to a second-rate ‘Judy Garland’ and felt the most comfortable with that decision. And so, I kept that in mind when we did HOLLYWOOD ARMS.

And yes, actually Carol, Hal (Prince) and I had a nice conversation about this very thing a couple of times during the process. I actually remember at the final callback they had it whittled down to ‘two families’. One family at the callback looked JUST LIKE carol and the rest of her family- tall, thin, red hair, etc. And then the other family looked NOTHING like carol and her family (which was me, Michele, Linda Lavin…we all were dark haired, average height and build, etc). I once asked Carol why they decided to go with the ‘black Irish’ version as opposed to the family that so clearly resembled her. And she said, ‘You know? It was more important to us to get the people that captured the ‘essence’ of who we were, as opposed to what we looked like.’ And we had more discussions about what my role was in the show, and that it was to NOT by any means do any sort of ‘impersonation’ of “Carol Burnett”- but to merely just capture her ‘essence’ and bring that to life in whatever way felt the most right to me, and to her and to Hal. Because let’s face it. There’s only one Carol Burnett, you know? To even think that anyone could…come close to actually BEING her again, is… to me, unfathomable in a way. I think to have tried to have done that would have been, ultimately incredibly foolish if not completely misguided by ego.

Was Hollywood Arms the show that put you on the map in NY casting circles? Tell us about the audition process.
I suppose so. Honestly? I hate to sort of…burst a bubble here but during HOLLYWOOD ARMS I also hired a personal publicist for two months out of my own pocket. I’ve never done so again, but in retrospect I’m very glad I did for that project and for that time because I think it did help ‘put me on the map’ in addition to just being a part of the show itself and with the people involved with it. So I’ll say, yes it was a combination of both playing a ‘high profile’ part successfully (thank God) and also having some PR help on the side to push it over the edge a little.

The audition process for HOLLYWOOD ARMS? Well, I worked with Hal previously on 3HREE and he actually approached me about HOLLYWOOD ARMS during the rehearsals for that show, and mentioned that he had called Carol about me already, to which I almost passed out. And then he didn’t mention it for months until we were in LA with 3HREE and then all of sudden he comes up to me and says, ‘Ok, Carol’s here at the show and after she wants to meet you’. Insane. So I met her and was a COMPLETELY blithering idiot. Ugh, I was a HOT mess…I couldn’t even PHONATE I was so in awe of her. And then another YEAR goes by….and I’m doing BY JEEVES on Broadway (for which I had gained about 25 pounds) and I get a call to come in and audition for HOLLYWOOD ARMS. Oy. So I go in and audition. Then I get called back and audition again. And then I got put on tape so Carrie (Carol’s daughter who co wrote the play) could see us in LA and then right before Christmas, I got the call that I was going to play the part! It was a great, great, great day when I got that call. Almost two years of my life hoping and praying on this part…and finally it had become official. I’ll never forget it.

When did you first decide to move to New York? Did you begin working in theater right away?
Actually, I wanted to move to NYC right after high school but my Mom talked me into getting a college degree for which I’m extremely grateful to this day. Not only did I get a great education at CMU, but…I think I would have just personally been eaten alive in every way shape and form, had I come to NYC at 18. I was lucky, in between my semesters at CMU I worked at the Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera every summer which was a fabulous experience (and also gave me my Actors Equity card)- and then after I graduated I had about 6 months of work lined up through this and that. But the January after I graduated CMU, I moved to NYC and have been here ever since. So…I actually was lucky to be working in theatre all through college and since then pretty steadily. Very lucky indeed.

You went to Carnegie Mellon University, a highly respected theatre conservatory. What factors went into that decision, as opposed to choosing a liberal arts school, or skipping college altogether? Would you recommend a conservatory for a young person interested in becoming an actor?
The choosing of the school was…more fate than anything else. When I was looking at colleges, I really didn’t know exactly what I wanted to do as I was a musician, a classically trained singer, a dancer, an actor, etc and I was rather scattered in my focus. Plus I was broke. So, I literally auditioned at 8 different colleges (that I picked out based on reputation and alumni) for 8 different majors and said, “Whatever school gives me the most money, is where I’ll go”– and that ended up being CMU for music theatre. It was the best thing of course, because while majoring in music theatre, for my work study I was able to keep up everything else (playing piano for ballet classes, and flute in pits, etc). But that’s really how I ultimately ended up majoring in music theatre at CMU.

I would definitely recommend a conservatory for a young person, absolutely. Not even for the great training you receive (which of course, gives you confidence when you walk into an audition room, not mention the rehearsal process). But also, I just think those four years of college help you figure out better who you ARE as a person. And that’s really the key as an actor, knowing who YOU are. Because that’s what you bring to the room, play, show, etc that NOONE else can. And that’s YOU. And who you are, and your life experiences and your takes on things…it’s you, that people ultimately hire for the job and it’s you, that you bring to whatever character you’re playing. And honestly, before I went to college- I had been such a people-pleaser that I had absolutely no idea what I thought about anything. I had been so busy trying to be everything that everyone ELSE wanted me to be…I had no center and no real thoughts and beliefs of my own. So…in that respect, it was invaluable to me, those four years. Again the training and the technique you learn is KEY, but there’s also that whole personal side of those four years that help you mature as a person and an artist that is impossible to ignore.

You’ve been able to win roles on Broadway in both musicals and straight plays. How have you avoided being pigeon-holed as an actor who does one or the other?
Truly, I have no idea. I wish I did, because I am so grateful that somehow I’ve managed to criss- cross in between musicals and plays that I wish I could impart some great wisdom on how I methodically did that. For me though, I have a much more philosophical approach about the parts we play as actors and I truly believe that every experience is something that helps you grow somehow. And some people’s lessons may lie more in musicals, and some in plays, and in my case, both. But, I think there’s greater powers that be that bring an actor together with the right piece not only for their talents, but for growth as a person too.

So more accurately, the experiences I’ve had I believe I’ve been drawn to because I was meant to not only learn things about myself but also because I was the right ‘vehicle’ for others to maybe learn things about themselves by experiencing them. Hope that didn’t sound too ‘crunchy’ but that’s really how I feel about it. Like with ‘Cora’ in THE DARK AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS, I’m being forced to look at a lot of things about myself that I don’t think, I’ve been ready to look at until now. And through learning about Cora as we go, I am learning things about myself and bringing to the part the most honest parts of myself that I can, whether they are things that I am proud of, or not. And that can be scary, to bring parts of yourself to the surface literally for others to see, that you know are true, but maybe not so pretty. But that’s part of the gig, eh?

What has your experience been breaking into on-camera work in New York? Has theatre success led to on-camera opportunities?
It’s funny you should bring that up because having been a ‘theatre beast’ for so many years, just recently I’ve started to look at TV and film and have felt a strong yearning to do it. In my heart, I feel that that’s because now, I have things to learn and share in this medium that I just didn’t have or wasn’t ready to before.

I recently took a GREAT Acting on Film class at One on One Studios from Bob Krakower, and it really solidified again that ultimately, the most important thing to put out there is truth and honesty. And because a camera can get SO CLOSE to you and your face, that that truth and honesty has got to be REAL. So in that respect, working in the theatre all this time has indeed prepared me to be able to do that, I believe. And yes, my working in the theatre has also ‘introduced’ me to casting people in the film and TV arena because they’ve seen things I’ve been in and that can make it a lot easier for me to ‘get in the door’ because they recognize me and my work.

It’s still all rather new to me though, and this is my first ‘pilot season’ experience right now as we speak but I’m very excited about it all– and actually tomorrow I film my first-ever national commercial!!! I’m very much looking forward to seeing what that experience is like and having more of them!

You’ve created a storytelling/cabaret show called Finishing the Hat, which you’ve performed at New York’s historical jazz club Birdland, among many other venues. Tell us about that show.
It all started when ARS NOVA asked me to a BROADWAY SPOTLIGHT show and it was during SWEENEY and while I was really wanted to do something, I was so tired and didn’t have that much time that I had no idea what I could do that would be worth seeing. So I was having lunch with my CMU buddy Emily Skinner and I said, What would you want me to do if you were trapped in a room with me for an hour? What do I want to SAY?’.

And she said, ‘Well, you HAVE to tell the story about this and you HAVE to tell the story about that.’

I said, ‘Yeah, but they are all so different and none of them go together, and they’re boyfriend stories, and surgery stories, and show stories…I mean, what do I do? Just put them all on index cards, add a song to each of them put them in a hat and go out in the audience and have people pick them?’.

And we looked at each other and said, ‘Hey, that’s not half bad!’. And thus, ‘FINISHING THE HAT’ was born.

We’ve since done the show about 8 times between ARS NOVA, BIRDLAND and the PCLO cabaret in Pittsburgh. The most fun thing about the show for me, is that every time we do it- it’s always different depending on what stories get picked. The only downside to it is that, I have to prepare about 4 times as much material as we ever use, because there’s now over 25 stories in the hat and I have to be ready to do all of them, even though I know only 8 or 9 will ultimately get picked.

But it’s a small price to pay really for how much fun we have when we do it. There’s been some ‘interest’ in it from other parties which has been just, incredibly flattering and exciting and I look forward seeing what the future holds for it. Regardless, it was one of the happiest ‘accidents’ I’ve ever had the good fortune to have…and continue to have (knock wood).

Why did you decide it was time to create your own vehicle?
Michael John LaChiusa actually pulled me aside during FIRST LADY SUITE a few years ago and put the bug in my ear to do my own show, but I just really….didn’t know what I wanted to say at that point. I had done a one-woman show quite a few years ago, that was sort of a continuation of a show Emily and I had done a few years before that…and at THAT point in my life I had some very clear things I wanted to express.

Because for me the worst thing about cabaret is that sometimes it can come off as self-indulgent, and I think that’s because the ‘storytelling’ aspect has been neglected. Sometimes it can come off as someone either ‘opening a vein’ in public, or doing an hour long audition that you’ve made people pay for and it leaves a bad taste in people’s mouths, you know?

And I think when Emily brought up those stories, (and when I subsequently emailed other friends and family for their favorite stories) that it was going to be stuff that people WANTED to hear more than stuff I merely wanted to say for my own benefit. So again, it was more about me being open to the opportunity presenting itself, as opposed to me sort of creating a vehicle for myself, for the mere sake of creating a vehicle for myself. Good Lord, I hope that made sense.

Is there anything you’ve learned over the years that you wish you’d known earlier on as an actor? What has surprised you the most about your professional life and career?
What I wish I knew? Well, I wish someone had at some point really driven home for me that I, as in who I was myself, was enough. That it’s really more about bringing yourself into that room, or that play or that part, as opposed to making who you are disappear into something else, or someone else.

For all of those younger actors out there, the path is not about you being ‘the next’ Kristin Chenoweth or ‘the next’ Brain Stokes Mitchell. It’s about you being the first YOU. The TRICK to that is, again- figuring out WHO you ARE. And that means living your life, and being open to what your gut says about things, and whether it’s time to maybe change your opinion on something, or whatever. But, for so long it seemed to me to be all about being ‘more like’ so and so and in truth, the real goal is to just BE YOU. Whoever that is. Warts and all.

One of my favorite quotes is by Bette Davis, where she says, ‘If everyone likes you, you’re doing something wrong’. Not that you should WANT to be disliked, but that if you are CLEAR about who you are you’re giving people the opportunity to choose whether or not they agree. That’s SO MUCH bigger of a gift to give as an artist than to sit on the fence, protecting your own ego in hopes that everyone likes you. Because ultimately, you’ve really….said nothing.

Take risks, remember that you got into this ‘business’ because it ultimately gives you great joy- and most importantly, to thine own self be true. That’s what I wish I’d known years ago, but then again….would I have really listened? This might just be one of those things that you have to learn by trial and error.

From the vantage point of having worked with some of the most talented and interesting leading ladies in the business, what do you think women like Carol Burnett, Patti LuPone, and Michelle Pawk have in common that makes them such indelible and interesting leading ladies? Are there any identifiable qualities that the rest of us can strive to emulate?
Again, if you look at all these women (besides being unfathomably talented) they ARE who they ARE. They are originals! They are unpredictable and therefore FASCINATING! Because they are REAL. They are unlike anyone else. And in that, they are fearless and as a result, iconic. And they are also not afraid to keep growing even out of those iconic images that they have become so famous for. And sometimes they’ve done it knowing full well that there might be consequences to it, but they can’t be anything but who they are. They are all brutally honest, brave and brilliantly talented women, and if anything, that is the common thread I have found in them all as artists and as wonderful people.